Gyan Goshthi….17

 

16. Karan Shuddha Paryaya

595. Q: Lots of greatness of Karan Shuddha paryaya are recited, but how is it useful to us?

A: It is cause form in Present hence the one who wishes to realise the present karya ( karya from Samyak darshan to Moksha) , for him it is useful; since with recourse to this reason the karya gets revealed. That karan paryaya is not different from the dravya. Dravya is trikaal same to same manifesting in present; by accepting that karan, with recourse to it the pure karya would be revealed. The present manifesting own form of dravya-guna is that karan Shuddha paryaya. Avoiding recourse to other reasons , by accepting own form karan Shuddha paryaya the Shuddha karya is attained.

596. Q: In Karan Shuddha paryaya the paryaya word is included. Hence in such case does it become subject of paryaya Drishti?

A: No. In spite of paryaya word being there it is not subject of paryaya Drishti. That paryaya always manifesting in immersed form with dravya is incorporated in the subject of Dravya Drishti. Being the present division of trikaali complete dravya, the word paryaya has been used for it and for carrying out present karya( moksha marga) it is called as present reason. By emphasizing the Drishti upon this karan Shuddha paryaya the Samyak darshan etc.  karya are carried out.

597. Q: Karan Shuddha paryaya and karya Shuddha paryaya are subjects of which naya?

A: Karan Shuddha paryaya is subject of inherent Shuddha nishchaya naya and karya Shuddha paryaya is subject of Shuddha sadbhoot vyavahara naya.

598. Q: The Shuddha paryayas of Keval Gyan etc. are said to be independent and karan Shuddha paryaya is also called independent- then what is the difference between these two absolutes.

A: The keval gyan etc. paryaya which are revealed with the destruction of gyanavarana etc. karmas, they are also swabhava paryaya and they do not have expectations of senses etc. From this aspect they are called as absolute, but they have nimitta-naimittik relation with destruction of karma , hence that much dependence is there in them . But in karan Shuddha paryaya , there is no nimitta-naimittik relationship with karma also , that is trikaal manifesting in absolute form along with dravya.

17. Punya-Pap

599. Q: Whether punya and pap are same?

A: The jiva who believes punya-pap to be different, that jiva is Mithya Drishti and he would sink in the great worldy ocean- this is told in Pravachansar gatha 77^th. Reason is that punya and pap bhava have equal non soulness. In Vyavahara the punya and pap bhava are different , that is for information ; but in reality there is no difference between punya and pap since both have equality from aspect of being non soul.

600. Q: In Pravachansar the one believing difference in Shubha-ashubha was called as Mithya Drishti, where as elsewhere the Shubha is like shade and ashubha as sunlight – thus difference was told- why so?

A: Shubha-ashubha are called as shade-sunlight , that is for gyani. In 5^th gunasthana the gyani has greater peace, his Shubha raga is called as shade form in Vyavahara. The Shubha raga of gyani is called traditional cause of Moksha also , but that is due to Drishti being Samyak and ashubha has been discarded hence in Vyavahara it is called as traditional cause. The Shubha raga of Agyani cannot be called as shade or traditional cause for Moksha either. Agyani dravya lingi muni with the Shubha raga of Shukla leshya went high upto ninth graveyak and from there he fell back into world. The Shubha raga of agyani has no value. Atma is absolutely pure indivisible blissful Paramatma , without whose Drishti even one step of Moksha marg cannot be taken. In brief the prime Siddhant is one “ salvation with recourse to self and the world with recourse to others” . In Chhahdhala also it is told that “out of lakh things the main thing is this only to be remembered in heart.”

601. Q: We have heard that in Adhyatma even punya is described as pap, on what basis?

A: In the world pap is called as pap everywhere, but experienced gyani people call punya also as pap. Himsa, untruth, theft etc. are considered as pap by the world but Shubha raga is also called as pap by gyani people. Since after falling from own nature the Shubha raga is encountered hence that too is pap; i.e. in Shubha raga also the himsa of self is carried out. Pravachansar Gatha 77 it is told that the jiva who believes difference in punya-pap, he is Mithya Drishti and wanders in infinite world.

602. Q: Without realising the Chaitanya form soul, if we continue to do punya then what is the harm?

A: Without realisation of Chaitanya nature, what all punya is carried out, it is equal to coating cow dung over ashes. Just as over the mass of ashes the cow dung cannot stick, it can stay over hard surface only; in the same way without realisation of Chaitanya swabhava with the aim of others what all punya is carried out, it is like application of cow dung over ashes. That punya would shortly transform into pap form, that punya does not stay for long- knowing this, the realisation of Chaitanya swabhava form Bhagwan atma should surely be carried out.

603. Q: In Yogsar why  the punya is also called as pap?

A: As such punya is Shubha raga, but it makes one fall from own nature hence it is told that the entire world calls pap as pap but the experienced jivas call punya also as pap. Jaysenacharya has also told that punya protects from ashubha but it makes fall from Shuddha nature- makes one fall, hence punya is also called as pap. Here the one who wants to benefit his soul , this is for him. As such infinite times after carrying out Shubha he went upto nineth graveyak, even then one rebirth was not  reduced.

604. Q: Compared to ashubha the Shubha is alright or not?

A: Without soul realisation the Shubha and ashubha both bhavas are cause for bondage, therefore from aspect of vyavahara the Shubha as compared to ashubha is considered better, but here the subject is from aspect of gyani. In Charananuyoga to reduce intense Kashaya , indulge in weak Kashaya – this too is told. But here in Adhyatma shastras there is not even smell of raga in soul- this is the subject. From aspect of substance the soul is Bhagwan form , without taking recourse to him in this aspect, if the raga is taken recourse to- then he is Mithya Drishti. 

605. Q: Those who consider the Shubha and ashubha manifestations to be different, they are called Mithya Drishti ; then  we should listen to subject of soul- discuss it, or sitting in shop carry out business- both are same?

A: From aspect of Vyavahara the Shubha ashubha manifestations are different. In business intense Kashaya is there, in soul discussion there is weak Kashaya. Hence there is difference in Vyavahara. But the aim of both Shubha and ashubha is towards others only; hence are cause for bandh. In reality there is no difference between the two – telling this the aim is directed towards own dravya discarding the spirit of benefit from Shubha.

606. Q: You are ssuggesting Shubha bhavas to be discarded ? 

A: There is spirit of benefit in Shubha bhavas which is prevalent since eternal times, which has to be abandoned. Firstly the spirit of respect of Shubha raga should be discarded , then the instability also should be discarded. Shubha raga would surely come, since without shuddhopayoga the Shubha raga cannot be abandoned; even then the buddhi of it being beneficial has to be discarded, the belief that by carrying out Shubha raga the soul would attain benediction- this has to be discarded.

607. Q: By listening and knowing this jivas would give up Shubha bhava?

A: Here the interest in Shubha bhava has to be discarded, not Shubha bhava., since Shubha bhava cannot be abandoned. With enhancement of state the Shubha raga keeps enhancing , but in that Shubha bhava the gyani does not have Atma Buddhi.

608. Q: The vrita etc. of agyani are cause for bandh but that of gyani are cause for Moksha?

A: Whether he is gyani or agyani, but the Shubha raga of vrita etc. is cause for bandh for both, not that of Moksha; since it is bhava generated with recourse to others. The vrita etc. Shubha raga experienced by gyani also has perturbation, restlessness. Hence it is cause for bandh. By facing self the Shuddha manifestation is carried out, that only is cause for Moksha.

609. Q: Prior to attaining experience of soul, whether it is alright to call Shubha raga as despicable?

A: Prior to attaining experience of soul, the Shubha raga is despicable to me – such decision should be taken. Even prior to Samyaktva in shraddhan the Shubha raga needs to be negated. Although Shubha raga is discarded only by stability in own nature , but its negation should be firstly there. If Shubha raga is respected then Mithyatva would be stronger . The objective of considering Shubha raga as despicable is not to traverse into ashubha .

610. Q; Without Samyak Darshan whether vrita-tapa-charity-sheel are fruitless- waste?

A: Yes, without attaining Samyak Darshan all the vrita-tapa etc. are fruitless for salvation, they are successful for enhancement of world.

611. Q: Why the Shubha raga of vrita-niyam-sheel-tapa etc. are called as extremely coarse manifestations ?

A: The soul nature is invisible to senses being extremely sookshma. The Shubha manifestation is of opposite category to that of soul nature, hence it is called extremely coarse manifestation. The manifestation of raga is afflicted manifestation generated with aim towards others and is manifestation dependent upon others, it is manifestation having coarse aim; hence it is also called extremely coarse manifestation.

612. Q: Why do you call punya as despicable ?
A: Shri Yogindu Deva has told that himsa-lies-theft etc. are pap bhava anyway, but Shubha bhava of charity-compassion-pooja-bhakti etc. are also really pap only since they bring down jiva from his nature. Oh! Every one calls pap as pap , but experienced jiva calls punya also as pap. It is very fine subject- If understood internally then only it can be understood- it is such subject.

612-A. Q: Considering Shubha bhava to be despicable but if in between ashubha bhava is encountered, then?

A: Ashubha bhava is experienced by Samyaktvi also. Art-Raudra dhyan are also possible. While believing Shubha to be despicable, where is the weightage of shraddha- this has to be seen.

613. Q: In shastra punya is called as despicable, then the pooja-bhakti-vrita etc. carried out by us so far have gone into water?

A: They have not gone into water- not wasted. By these pooja-bhakti-vrita etc. the punya is bonded and with that decent rebirth takes place, but one cannot be free of rebirths.

614. Q: Then whether we should do pooja-bhakti-etc. or not ?

A: There is no question of not doing. The deed worth doing is to experience the soul being different from raga. Soul is gyan natured completely blissful Prabhu and by facing it till the dharmi jiva does not attain completely stationary state , till then the Shubha raga of pooja-bhakti-vrita etc. are existent and they happen. According to the context the Shubha raga cannot be avoided; but the dharmi jiva does not consider it as dharma or cause of dharma; that Shubha raga is cause for punya bandh- he knows this.

615. Q: The Shubha raga of gyani is called as pot of nectar in Vyavahara, then what is the hurdle in calling the Shubha raga of agyani as pot of nectar? Whether it is gyani or agyani , the Shubha raga is Shubha raga?

 A: Gyani has attained Drishti-gyan of Shuddha swabhava , he does dravya Pratikraman , all these are like pot of nectar being capable of reducing the faults form flaws – this is told in Vyavahara. Since dharmi has Drishti-gyan of shudddha swabhava , there fore with his Pratikraman etc. Shubha bhava the ashubha bhava reduces, hence his Shubha raga is called as pot of nectar in Vyavahara. However to those who have not attained shraddha-gyan of non-Pratikraman form Shuddha swabhava different from Pratikraman , for him the Vyavahara Pratikraman etc. are pot of poison only.  Those who have not attained shraddhan-gyan of Shuddha swabhava . their dravya Pratikraman etc. are totally incapable of reducing faults. Hence for them the Pratikraman etc. are pot of poison only. Gyani has Nishchaya Drishti hence his Shubha vyavahara is means for reducing the fault- this is told since his Shubha vyavahara along with Nishchaya reduces the flaw of Vyavahara Ashubha . But those who do not have Nishchaya, they do not have Vyavahara also, they have Mithyatva and that too is ashubha , hence their faults do not diminish. Samyak Drishti has power of Nishchaya hence he does not have Mithyatva and his Vyavahara is Shubha , which reduces ashubha partially, hence it is called pot of nectar in Vyavahara. In reality the Shubha raga of Samyak Drishti is also poison form , even then it has been alleged to be  as nectar bhava form and Shubha raga has been called as nectar form in Vyavahara. The Shubha raga of Mithya Drishti being only poison form in that the allegation of pot of nectar cannot  be even made.

616. Q: Whether raga is also non existent? Whether ragas do not benefit self and others?

A: In reality with respect to Shuddha swabhava of soul the raga also is non existent, with that raga the self and others do not get benefited. Look, even the raga with whose nimitta the Tirthankara naam karma gets bonded, that raga does not benefit anyone really , since for that jiva in the present, due to that raga the Veetrag state has been withheld. When with recourse to swabhava that raga would be destroyed , then only Veetragata and salvation would be attained. Hence with that raga there is no benefit to self.

With that raga others also are not benefited, this is explained now.

Firstly with the nimitta of that raga the Tirthankara Naam Karma has been bonded, its result would be attained with the elimination of that raga, i.e. with elimination of that raga when Keval Gyan would be revealed , then that Tirthankara naam karma would come into fruition and with divine sound preachment would be given , then he would be enjoyer of infinite bliss. Now till the aim of listener of the divine sound is upon the sermon, till then  there would be generation of vikalpa and raga for him and when giving up the aim of sermon, he becomes stationary with own aim, then only Samyak Darshan etc. benefit would accrue, hence it is decided that raga does not benefit others.

When self is benefited with own aim, then in Upachar it is said that with the speech of Bhagwan unprecedented benefit accrued  ; but this is merely upachar statement.

In reality the others have not benefited, with own raga also there is no benefit, the benefit has accrued only with recourse to self.

617. Q: The Gyani do not consider Shubha raga as good then why do they do repentance of the transgression?

A: The Shubha raga of Pratikraman-Prayashchit etc. also has been called as pot of poison. The ashubha raga of sensual desires is anyway poison, but Shubha raga is also poison. The  Bhagwan  atma is pot of nectar. Raga being opposite natured is poison only. In Samaysar the Pratikraman etc. are called poison.

618.Q:  Having bhava of friendship towards all jivas is Shubha bhava ?

A: All souls are like siddhas, there is no raga-dwesha with anyone- such bhava of friendship is swabhava not Shubha bhava.

619. Q: Why the money earned with punya is called as pap?

A: The money is counted in ten types of Parigrahas (possessions) – from this aspect it is pap, but in reality the money is only gyeya, believing it to be own and having oneness with it is pap; and in that pap the money is nimitta, hence that is also called as pap.

620. Q: In Samaysar 72^nd Gatha the punya-bhava is called impure, also called as corporeal swabhava; hence should we do Shubha raga of bhakti or not?

A: So long as Veetragata is not there, till then raga cannot be avoided in its kaal; but raga is not my swabhava, my bhava is raga free Chaitanya swabhava- in this way internally the differentiating knowledge of raga and Chaitanya swabhava should be done. The lack of raga is possible for Veetragi, but those who are ragi, they cannot avoid having bhava of bhakti etc. In two states the Shubha raga does not occur, either due to intense sensory Kashaya or for those who have become Veetragi. In lower states  the eligible jivas cannot avoid having Shubha raga of bhakti, studies etc. Even then dharmi is aware that the raga bhava is opposite bhava to that of our swabhava, our swabhava is not karta of raga, we are only pure Chaitanya natured. In this way even with Shubha raga the dharmi does not consider it as his duty, he considers only veetraga bhava as his duty which is revealed with recourse to swabhava.

621. Q: Why bhava of punya-pap is called as corporeal?

A: The bhava of punya -pap is not conscious hence it is called as corporeal. Punya-pap is not corporeal of the form of touch-taste-smell but it does not have knowingness. In Samaysar jiva-ajiva adhikar it has been called ajiva and in karta-karma adhikar it is called corporeal. Since punya -pap bhava does not have gyan – from this aspect it is called as corporeal.

622. Q: In spite of there being difference from aspect of Vyavahara between Shubha and ashubha bhava, the one believing the difference to be there in reality would wander in the endless world- this is told in shastra. Further the Deva-Guru-Sermon is not available without punya; in such state for attaining them in next birth, there is a requirement of punya ?

A: With punya the conjunction of Deva-Guru-sermon is acquired- this is true; but the punya bhava is dukh form in present and it is also cause of future dukh – this is told in  shastra. The reason is that with the material available due to punya, with its goal there would be raga which is dukh form. When the aim is on sermon of Bhagwan, the raga  that is generated is also Dukh form. Shubha raga comes and it happens, even then the dharma of Consciousness is not Shubha raga, Shubha raga is dukh form only. Oh! This point pinches  the people and  being sookshma it is difficult to absorb within, but the fact is this only.

623. Q: If the experience of the nature is not attained and if he considers the Shubha to be despicable, then whether he would become promiscuous?

A: By knowing Shubha raga to be despicable, the Shubha raga is not abandoned. Only after realising the glory of nature the glory of Shubha raga is abandoned. But the Shubha raga is not abandoned. Shubha raga is unavoidable depending upon the situation in its kaal. After knowing the real form of the substance the promiscuity cannot remain.

624. Q: In spite of listening to this true thing, if the dharma is not attained in the present then what to do?

A: If the listening to the truth is with interest, then it results in Sanskar and with these Sanskar the dharma is attained. Although at present the Vikalpas do not forgo, even then with those Sanskar the dharma is attained in future.

625. Q : You say that the house holder should destroy the punya manifestations?

A: The destruction of punya manifestations occur when  the shuddhopayoga is total. In lower state the punya manifestations cannot be destroyed; even then the punya manifestation is despicable and destroyable- such Drishti should first be there. Punya bhava is despicable and it should be  destroyed; the one who does not accept it , he is Mithya Drishti. In lower state the Shubha bhava cannot be avoided, even then in Drishti it should be negated first.

626. Q: Jiva does punya pap now ( at present); when does he get its result?

A: The result of some punya-pap done now, some jiva gets in this birth itself  and someone gets it in future births. For someone due to punya bhava and the speciality of purity, the earlier pap may convert into punya form also. In the same way with  intense pap the previous punya may transform into pap form also. This subject is from aspect of previously bonded karmas. When we consider from aspect of manifestations, then the enjoyments of punya-pap bhavas occur at the time of manifestations itself to the jiva , their weak-intense restlessness is experienced by the jiva at that time only. Some jiva, with the power of purity, destroys the previously bonded karmas before getting their result itself.

627. Q: If Kashaya is weakened then one can face inwards?

A: Not at all. If world is weakened then can he  be beyond world? If poison is weakened then would it become nectar? Punya and pap both are cause for bandh , they are poison form, they are opposite bhava to that of nectar. Accepting one to be good and other to be bad is accepting difference in Shubha ashubha – all this is cause for wandering in the endless world- this is told by KundKunda Bhagwan. Bhagwan atma is nectar form and he himself is the means to face inwards , the weakness of Kashaya is not in the least bit means. With the weakness of Kashaya and bhavas of Shukla leshya the Dravya Lingi went upto ninth Graveyak even then Mithyatva was not relinquished.

628. Q: Six dravya form Lok is Gyeya. The Panch Parameshthi Bhagwan also come in gyeya, hence they should be known- it is told, then whether we should do bhakti of Bhagwan or not?

A: The question of not doing bhakti is not there, but the bhava of bhakti being gyeya is worthy of knowing – this is told. In Samaysar 11^th Gatha it is told that with recourse to real Prabhu Samyak Darshan is attained. With recourse to Trikaali the pure paryaya which appeared, that too is called as different from Trikaali and in 12^th Gatha it is told that the Sadhak has attained some parts of purity. What about the parts of impurity? Then it is told that this Shuddha-ashuddha paryaya parts are worthy of knowledge.

629. Q: Dharma, Arth, Kaam, Moksha is given by Deva. The one who has, he gives,  then how is it ?

A: This is statement of Vyavahara from aspect of nimitta. The one bending towards Deva attains purity and along with it punya bandh takes place. As a result the Kaam and Arth are attained.

630. Q: This is alright! But does one get all this from Bhagwan?

A: The one who has desire of Kaam and Arth, bhavana is there, he does not get it, but the one who has bhavana of benefit of soul, he accrues punya bandh and its result is attained, this has been explained.

631. Q: Does the impurity of soul get cleaned  with Shubha bhava of Vrita-Tapa-Tyag?

A: No, that is raga only and believing them to be own is Mithyatva , fault and delusion.

632. Q: For ordinary people engaging in Vrita etc. only is dharma?

A: Even for ordinary jivas, the Shubha bhava of Vrita etc. are not dharma, it does not bring an end to birth-death and if one has buddhi of being benefited with these then the birth-death enhances ; dharma is merely Veetrag bhava only.

Who is soul and what can it do and what is its form , by practicing these firstly the atma gyan is attained. Later the vikalpa of vrita etc. are attained. Without understanding soul if vrita etc. are done with spirit of getting benefit, then Mithyatva gets strengthened.

633. Q: Whether from some aspect the gyan also can be cause for bandh?

A: Shastra Gyan is cause for punya bandh, the gyan of world is cause for pap bandh and atma gyan is cause for dharma. The gyan of shastra is cause for punya bandh but which shastra? The omniscient described shastra-gyan is cause for punya , not the ones described by others. Shastra gyan has shastra as nimitta, which is gyan  with other’s aim, hence is negated, the gyan of atma is Nishchaya. In the same way nine tattvas are nimitta for shraddha of nine tattvas, soul is not nimitta. Hence it is raga with shraddha of differentiation, it is Vyavahara and that vyavahara shraddha occurs to abhavya also, he does not have shraddha of soul.  The vikalpa of compassion towards jivas of six body forms is Shubha raga. In spite of these it is possible that Nishchaya Charitra is not attained, since Nishchaya Charitra is attained with recourse to self only and along with it the vikalpa of Vyavahara charitra may or may not be there.

635. Q: Although external thing is not cause for bandh, then why the preachment of renouncing external things has been given in shastras?

A: The external things are not cause for bandh at all since those external things are not there in dravya-guna of soul and even in paryaya they are absent. Yes, this is for sure that the cause for bandh is adhyavasan which occurs with recourse to external object only, not without recourse to it. Hence believing it to be cause for bandh , the preachment of renunciation of external objects has been done in JinaVani.

636. Q: What is the means to enhance the tiredness from the worldly ?

A: In the world Shubha-ashubha bhava are there  which are all dukh form and its fruition results in birth in four gatis. There different types of dukh and restlessness are there – this should be felt within. The Shubha-ashubha bhava is dukh form only- this should be felt then tiredness from  world would be felt.

637. Q: Whether the body diseases cannot be eliminated by doing dharma?

A: Brother! The elimination of body illness is not job of the dharma, if earlier punya is there then the body becomes healthy. Due to result of dharma the body disease is eliminated – such believer has not understood the form of dharma at all. Punya is due to Shubha manifestation and dharma is revealed with Shuddha swabhava , this he does not know. The SanatKumar Chakravarty after taking ordination, in spite of being great dharmatma has body disease for several years and there was no effect of dharma on body. It is not so that with dharma the body remains disease free. As a result of dharma the soul experiences some unprecedented bliss. There is no relation of punya and body etc. with dharma. In Moksha Marg the punya is also negated. With Shubha bhava dharma can be attained- this belief itself is erroneous.

638. Q: If raga is also respected then what is the harm? In Agam why there is so much prohibition for respecting raga?

A: Where raga is respected, there the Veetrag swabhava is disrespected and where Veetrag swabhava is disrespected, there those who have attained Veetragata  i.e. Omniscient, Sadhus worshipping omniscient, the shastras preaching it are also disrespected. The order of Veetrag Deva-Guru-Shastra nourishes veetrag bhava only , the one who served raga in his intent instead, in reality he has disobeyed the order of Veetrag. Externally though he may be doing Shubha bhava of the bhakti-pooja- respect of Veetrag , but internally due to lack of knowledge of nature of Veetrag , he is serving raga and doing bhakti-pooja-respect of raga only in his intent. The converse intent of agyani with great disrespect to Veetrag incurs bandh of considerable pap. The worldly people do not have this realisation.

639. Q: By which business we can attain punya?

A: Reading , contemplation, listening of true Jain Shastras would cause punya bandh and with their right understanding the transmigration of 84 can be overcome i.e. salvation could be attained.

Continued….